Trentside Tales - Nottingham Forest F.C & Notts CCC
- Neil Harrison
Looking Back at some old Articles from Forest's Matchday Programme
This is from the Forest v Orient Programme 18/1/75 ahead of Brian Clough's 1st home game in Charge: From the great man himself:
When I was first asked to write this article my initial reaction was to say "No" because a football manager's job is not about writing notes for a match programme.
But it is the first opportunity I have had to introduce myself to you so here I am for the first - and last - time this season.
I know from the reaction there has already been to my arrival at the City Ground that something special is expected of me. But if you want wild promises of First Division football, big signings, and glamour in the near future ... forget it !
I'm not making predictions outside saying that I will be trying my utmost to put the big & beautiful city of Nottingham back on the football map.
The club has gone places in the past but so much has gone wrong, too many bad decisions have been made and not enough work put in.
One of the greatest tragedies to my mind is the way quality players have been allowed to leave over the last 5 or 6 years.
None of that would have happened had I been hereunless there was a clear indication of the player not having his heart in the club.
It does not need a ready reckoner to assess that close on £1,000,000 worth of talent has left Forest for one reason or another.
There is no purpose at all in reflecting what might have been however, but take it from me - the transfer door is now firmly bolted as far as class players are concerned.
Of course, I was responsible for taking the last pearl from Forest's oyster when i signed Duncan Mckenzie for Leeds. He is a very fine player and one that I would give a lot to have with me now. I would also have loved to have had the job of sorting out the problems he obviously had here.
Nobody knows why he made his stand against Forest better than me. He must have been frustrated with what was happening and I can imagine his feelings were similar to yours. You had run out of patience because of what had gone wrong in the past and run out of hope for the future.
I will be trying to give you something to look forward to but there is no cash at the Bank to buy players so hard work is the priority.
The first responsibility to improve things is mine but players must respond to me and show they are willing to work, listen, and learn.
There will be no pressure on them to win because results are not their worry. I want them to apply themselves to their profession and that happens to be football.
The players and I have had a successful start together at Tottenham and Fulham and not, in my wildest dreams, did I expect to kick off with 2 wins. It was great to meet up with Bobby Moore at Craven Cottage last week. I still have tremendous admiration for him and was sorry he was not able to join me at Derby.
Today we are attempting to make it three wins in a row against Orient - a team who showed they are not short of ability in the cup ties with Derby. I understand they are the unluckiest team to be knocked out of the Cup for many a year.
So it will be far from easy for us because George Petchey has worked wonders at Orient. He has not bought any £100,000 players but they will be a tough side to beat.
You, the supporters can help by encouraging the side. But as I have said in the local paper, I have no time for football "yobs" who come along to cause bother.
After Manchester United, Forest's hot heads have one of the worst reputations in football and I aim to end that. My message to trouble makers is simply: "Get lost !"
To the well behaved majority, I hope we have a successful time together and it is my intention to get to know you a lot better over the coming months.
I am not a manager who sits in his ivory tower all day long. I am a "half a beer and fish and chips man".
I know I have got the name as soccer's "big mouth" but, deep down, I am an ordinary bloke doing a job of work!t
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*Article by Brian Clough ... the Forest Review ... 18/1/75
The 1st of many fantastic things we heard from the great man for over 18 glorious years ... RIP
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Article from the Forest v Bristol Rovers Programme - 4/12/76 - following the previous home game against Chelsea which brought serious crowd disorder - (Article by Club Secretary Ken Smales)
I had a quick flick through a number of old programes from the early to mid seventies - incredible really just how many ongoing references there were to repeated instances of 'football hooliganism' ... but in this article Ken seems to be somewhat at the end of his tether!
For the record the programme cost 12p, trips to the next 2 aways at Orient & Millwall were being advertised under 'Travel with the Team'. Train tickets were £3 to Orient 2nd class, £7 1st class (cold buffet, seat ticket) & tickets to Milwall 2nd class £3.50, 1st class £14 (2 meals, seat ticket). By contrast seat tickets for the Notts County game at the CG were being advertised at £2 Main Stand, £1.20 East Stand. Standing tickets not advertised at all but from memory reckon in the 76/77 season were between 50p and £1 from memory.
Anyway the Article is detailed below:
One of the problems confronting the writer of a regular column such as this is that subjects are limited and therefore articles can tend to become repetitive. Despite this occupational hazard, and at the risk of boring you, I am again going to raise the subject that is causing a great deal of concern to everyone, and that is hooliganism.
With the recent happenings in the vicinity of the City Ground on match days this problem is no doubt uppermost in the thoughts of every decent football follower.
I do not in any way wish to infer that the thugs who wear Forest colours and attend our ground regularly are whiter than white, because they are an extremely nasty bunch who need no provoking. They come prepared for, and look to seek out, trouble.
But it is apparent and is surely more than coincidence that "aggro" is more prevalent when visiting supporters arrive in any considerable number. Fighting was evident inside the ground during both the Wolves & Sheff Utd matches, and the violence outside the ground for the Chelsea match reached a new peak.
Before we condemn the visiting hooligans, and we all know that every club has this element, we must remember, as one senior police official reminded me, that it takes two to make a fight. And how right he is.
The scum of the country has attached itself to football like a leech sucking the life blood out of the game, and it is therefore of some consolation to hear that stronger punishment can now be meted out by the courts.
Last season the visit of Blackpool attracted our lowest "gate" of the season of just 8,582. Not because of who they were but because they, unfortunately were the next visitors to the CG after the vilonet scenes on the Bridgford End terrace at the preceeding Chelsea match. people fear for their safety.
We have received numerous phone calls and letters since our last home game which revelead just how frightened genuine supporters have become. Obviously both the police and the club were aware of the possibility that last seasons viloence could be repeated and discussions took place in an effort to counteract it.
One unnecessary problem arose, and that was the early arrival of the Chelsea supporters trains. The first was scheduled to arrive at 1pm despite repeated appeals by the Minister for Sport that supporters should not be permitted to arrive at the town of their destination well before the kick off.
The police obviously did not want a 1,000 or so visitors roaming round the streets of Nottingham illing time as it were. So it was arranged for some turnstiles to be opened much earlier than usual. It was also agreed that the Chelsea fans of the trains would be escorted into the Trent End so as to avoid a repeat of last season's unsavoury episode.
So far so good, but an overflow of fans onto the running track was not contained and they were allowed to wander at leisure round the perimeter until they arrived at the scoreboard corner where they spread onto the pitch.
The referee, quite rightly, had no option but to suspend play until everyone was back over the wall. During his subsequent discussion with the Chairman and myself he revelaed that he was prepared to have the ground cleared and to continue the match in an empty stadium.
The most horrific part of the afternoons action was, however, to take place outside the ground with stabbings and general mayhem.
The awful consequences of this was brought very clearly into the focus when a Tuesday phone call from a very distraught father at Skegness revealed that his son, who is a close friend of our John Middleton, was one of the victims in the stabbing incidents.
Football is clearly beeing dragged down by animals. We cannot control their behaviour in the streets, so what can we do within the confines of the ground to ensure a degree of safety.
We have all given the problem considerable thought and one suggestion proposed by Brian Clough is that as we cannot guarantee the good behaviour of all those who attend the matches we might at least be able to provide an area of safety for those who wish to use it.
His idea is to section off an area in front of the Main Standand only permit entry to Ground season ticket holders and so preclude any visiting supporters from this sanctuary. This would not force season ticket holders into an area where they do not wish to stand, but merely offer them a reserved place in an area occupied only by Forest fans.
One of my ideas is for half of the Trent End to be sealed off for the use of visiting supporters. This would mean the installing of extra toilets and refreshment bars in that section at considerable cost, but this would be particularly useful if we gained promotion.
But neither of these ideas solves the problem of the "Forest mob".
Many of you have written, and several have suggested, that the erection of dividing fences has not helped solve the problem. I would like to remind them that it was not so long ago that the gangs were swarming from one end of the terrace to the other, knocking down anyone unfortunate enough to be standing in their path. So, if nothing else, we have eliminated this paticular problem.
Mr James, in a letter published in the Chelsea issue of the "Review", expressed irritation at the apparent cool attitudes of football administrators towards the suggestion of the identity card system. I do not doubt his sincerity in believing that such a scheme is practicable but I do not share his views, and in any event cannot see how it can possibly be implemented. It would take an army of civil servants to administer and there is no more guarantee of good behaviour as a result of its introduction.
After all, the present threat of custodial sentences do not seem to deter the many ruffians from perpetrating acts of hooliganism in much the same way that hidden cameras in shops do nor prevent pilfering.
But I will examine his theory more closely, and use the examples that he cited in a Chelsea v Forest game being only watched by holders of cards issued by the two clubs.
Surely these supporters are the very two chemicals necessary for an explosion. it is not the presence of neutral supporters of other clubs or casual visitors who cause the trouble.
Our average home attendance prior to the Chelsea game was just over 14,000 but 27,000 plus turned up for this match. Would the 13,000 or so extra spectators have had to obtain a pass (or two passes according to Mr James) during the week preceding. If so, how many persons would have to be employed to cope with the work? Have you ever been to renew your car licence and seen the waiting queues and the time taken to serve them all. I am afraid that I must reject this idea as impractical.
Our old friend Harry Durose has written saying how afraid he has become to stand in his favourite position, and will be seriously considering supporting us from his armchair in the future. His is only one of the many cries from the heart that we have received. An answer must be found or football will die!
Article by Ken Smales
It is interesting to read these views from nearly 37 years ago. As a 15 year old at the time I can't say that I agree with all he writes but this type of article/comment about so called 'football hooliganism' was a regular feature/topic of discussion in the "Forest Review's" at this time. Prices interesting too!
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http://www.trentsidetales.com/?zpbw_compId=TPWdgt0&zpbw_postKey=udf1EgEcRQM8ad89OIUyZQ ... Click on the link for a bit of nostalgia from my 1st ever Forest match and a few details from the match day programme ... plus a bit more nostalgia!
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Reviewing, the mid 70's seasons, (73/74 to 76/77), there were '2 obsessions' highlighted on a very regular basis in the match day Programme ... Hooliganism & Television, specifically not wanting the TV camera's anywhere near the Grounds, the view being that even though you were really only talking limited highlights, the view was it stopped people going to games! ... No live domestic games apart from the FA Cup Final, just bried edited highlights ... how things have changed. Obviously for all of the above 4 seasons, we were in Division 2. (We spent 72/3 there also of course but despite regular outbreaks of hooligansim, it largely seemed to be ignored in the Programme).
I'll review just a few snapshots from some of the Programmes ... In the game v Swindon Town at the CG on 18/9/73, our dear old club secretary Ken Smales made reference to our 1st away game of the season ... at Oxford on 1st September:
' I think most decent minded people are absolutely sickened by the antics of the hooligans who roam the vicinity of football grounds under the guise of supporters of fotball. Itmust have horrified most people to see the much publicised pictures of the wrecked compartments of the Oxford bound train.
After our 1st away match of the season I received a 'phone call' from the manager of the "Blue Boar" restaurant at the Watford Gap service area, who informed me that a Trent bus load of our followers, not supporters may I add, descended on the place on their way back from Oxford and caused such confusion that the police were called in to clear them out.
Ordinary decent people hurriedly lrft the place, no doubt thinking that Nottingham Forest must have the crudest set of supporters in the country, & who can blame them! The police shepherded the ruffians onto the coach and got them on their way'
He goes on to ask who is responsible for such occurrencies ... the police, the Bus Company, the clubs etc ... & early references are made as to the possibility of a 'carding system' where one 'caution' would lead to essentially a 4 game ban and two would lead to the rest of the season! ... he refers to it in the context of having to have an 'access card' to gain entry to any ground in the 1st place ... and we are not talking credit cards here! All a bit bizare but that is the type of dialogue being used at the time.
In the next programme v Preston on 22/9/73, Manager Dave Mackay does a Q & A ... One question asks ... 'What do you see as the biggest evils that confront the game today?' ... His answer ... ' The major factors which are working against the wellbeing of the game are, hooliganism which is forcing support away from the grounds and into the arms of that other evil, television'
It is again hard to believe just how strongly many in the game felt about television, all be it however minimal coverage was, was such a threat to the game.
As we moved into the 1974/5 season, the 'Forest Review' (match programme) 14/9/74, Ken Smales talks about identity cards for Juviniles and how many letters had been printed in the previous seasons programmes, something Cardiff City had apparently tried something similar, essentially along the lines of not allowing juviniles into the ground unless accompanied by an adult.
He goes on to have another 'pop' at the BBC & ITV saying he is going to keep a list of how many times the cameras attend each club and print a list from time to time.
In the next 'review v Portsmouth on 17/9/74, he goes into great detail about the Man Utd v Forest game at Old Trafford on 7/9/74, and the carnage whether you had travelled by coach or train. Man Utd were spending a season in Division Two after their relegation. All their away games were 'all ticket' affairs, such was the size of their fan base and 'hooligans', but this was not the case for their home games. The stand out thing though was for that game at Old Trafford, there was no proper segregation of fans at all ... but neither was there much at any other grounds either. The difference with Man Utd of course was that they, even in Division 2 could attract much bigger crowds that anyone else, hence it was a bigger problem, as we found out that day.
In the 'Forest Review' v Sheff Weds on 1/4/75, an apology is issued to the 'Trent End' as for the home game v Man Utd on 22/3/75, the Police had insisted that it had to be given up by home fans as it was the only 'safe' part of the ground that fans could be adequtely segregated & then it goes on to detail the cost of ground 'improvements', policing etc. Despite these contingencies & as the 74/75 season drew to a close, things off the pitch would continue to 'worsen' ... despite significant improvements on it ...
The 'Forest Review' v Notts County on 30th August makes reference to the season opener v Plymouth on 16th August at the CG. Ken Smales this time includes in his 'focus' article ... 'The disgraceful scenes on our terraces at the Plymouth game have already been amply described in the press and the forthright comments of Brian Clough on the subject merely underline the thoughts of all of us at the City Ground.
Whatever the idiotswho came onto the running track at the Trent End were thinking about I do not know. What were they trying to achieve? If they cannot behave themselves they should just stay away. We don't need their presence at the ground.
It's a brave man who will stand up to a crowd of hooligans but we all hope that the time will comewhen the message gets to the ruffians that they are not wanted and their antics do not help the team or club in any way. It was obvious from the applause that Brian Clough received from the crowd that everyone wants to see the end of this tiresome social phenomenon now prevalent at almost every ground throughout the country'.
Without being unfairly critical here, I don't think Ken really grasped even remotely, what was actually going on and displayed incredible naievity here.
There was little 'New Year' spirit in evidence in the 'Forest Review' for the NYD game v Peterborough in an FA Cup 3rd Round tie, this time the spleen being vented at the TV companies ... KS in 'Forest Focus' ... How long is football going to stand by and allow the T.V cameras access to our groundsand let them screen sports programmes in direct competition with us on Saturday afternoons? I know that they cannot transmit whatever programmes they wish, but we should say to them that they can only have football on the screen if they discontinue this practice of filtering away our bread and butter supporters by showing things like the Grand National, professional golf tournaments, Rugby league & Union internationals etc when nationwide matches are being played' ... the rant goes on but you get the gist. It would not have helped his mood when the Forest fans ran amok in the replay at London Road, following a 1-0 defeat.
You may be forgiven for daring to suggest that old KS didn't exactly have an open mind on some of the issues of the day, heaven forbid! I wonder if he ever thought that there was the possibility that his views may be misplaced or wrong?
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In the 'Review' v Oldham on 28th February 1976, there is 'clear evidence' in the writers view that hooliganism is specifically stopping people going to games ... 'However, to revert to the Blackpool match, I must say I was both surprised and disappointed with the poor attendance of 8,582. I know it rained during the Saturday morning but didn't it also rain heavily when we played Bristol City? I am also aware we had not won at homesince the end of November, but our following both home and away , has been terrific, so what caused the sudden drop of about 4,500 (we were averaging about 13,300 prior to this game)?
Blackpool, with all due respect are ot the most attractive of visitors on a February day, but I think that it was the outbreak of hooliganism at the previous game v Chelsea that could have deterred many from attending. Just what we are going to do with this unruly gang that continue to decimate our gates. Can't they see the harm that hey are doing to the club and Brian Clough's hopes of building a first division side?
So, once again, I must appeal to everyone to try to stop the hot heads from leading their weaker minded followers into causing disturbances near to and inside the ground. It looks as though more fences will have to be installed to protect those who really want to watch the game.
By this time, the 'City Ground Postbag' was in full swing. Basically, it allowed fans to write in to the 'Review' and some of the letters were printed. In this particular 'Review' one fan suggests we allocate a particular part of the ground for the away fans! ... & mentions that following this Chelsea match how he had added some life threatening sharp 'clinker' to his souveniors suggesting it could have quite easily killed him.
To maintain some kind of balance here, there are also many letters and comments of praise especially around the success of Forestrail, which was very popular at this time.
In the 'Review' v Oxford on 10th April, a very irrate fan wrote the following letter however, which did highlight to some extent that the problem really was ever worsening ...
Dear Mr Smales,
I would like to comment about the support Forest got at York City the other weekend. I travelled on the Forestrail with about 500 others and was looking forward to the match. However, I stepped out of York station to see about 50 Forest "yobbos" get off a special bus and start thumping cars and anyone who got in their way.
Is this the support the club really wants? Anyway having said that, it was a delight to see so many cars arriving in York with red scarves hanging out and of, the 5,500 inside Bootham Crescent, I should think 3,000 must have been from Nottingham.
But the bad element caused havoc again at half time by running onto the pitch and fighting with police. Do we really want the reputation of Newcastle? Then as one of the "yobs" made his way over the wallback onto the terraces, a woman pushed him, obviously angry at the riotous scenes. He I'm afraid to sat was a Forest fan and floored the woman. Talk about carry the red flag! I wonder what that woman thinks of NFFC now'
KJ Long Eaton
I have just picked out a selection of articles & comments just to try & highlight what was being talked about at the time.
The 1976/77 season saw ever escalating violence, the game v Chelsea on 20th November already featured in detail earlier in this section of the website & significantly worse than the game in Jan 76 v Chelsea, the previous season. Again though as the season progressed the 'City Ground Postbag' would again be full of complaints, views and comments ...
In the match day programme v Coventry in the league cup 21/9/76, a letter from a fan in the CG postbag read as follows ...
'I was hoping that after I had seen the match v Wolves (28/8/76), I would be able to write to you to say "it was good to be back at the CG again"!
Quite obviously a certai section of the crowd had other ideas. (I was really amazed at the number of youths who were watching anything but soccer).
Just what can be done with this hooligan element is beyond me, and judging by the lack of success in dealing with the problem, it has a lot of people baffled.
I still feel that, so far as the CG is concerned, the answer must be complete segregation of the rival factions.
After all with only 17,000 plus people in the ground, which can hold nearly threee times as many, this must be feasable.
If the police knew beforehand exactly where the main body of visiting spectators were going to stand then they could shepherd the local thugs away from that region - or at least keep sufficient space between the two sections.
Incidently were there any police on duty that Saturday afternoon?
They kept as the media might say a very low profile or maybe they had been drafted to London for the Notting Hill carnival.
Seriously, though, the scenes during the game with Wolves concerned me deeply and I hope something constructive will be done to prevent a repeat performance otherwise we shall find the CG either a) closed down by the authorities b) containing thugs who only go along for the aggro & who will consequently drive away the true follower and certainly any families who are unable to afford sufficient stand season tickets ...
RM (Tewkesbury)
You will note that there was still no proper segregation despite continued and ever escalating crowd trouble.
In the Forest v Bristol Rovers programme on 4th December, I have already detailed the 'Forest Focus ' article about the Chelsea game earlier in this sectiont (by Ken Smales) ... one fans letter in the CG postbag carries on in a similar vein ...
'Dear Mr Smales
Much as I enjoy coming to watch the Forest team play, I am getting somewhat worried about the hooliganism situation. It's not so much a question of whether I think it will be a good match or not, but whether I am at all likely to get stabbed, kicked, bottled, punched, throttled or even murdered.
Our last home match against Chelsea was a fine case in point. I was standing under the Main Stand at the Bridgford End, well away from the spasmodic fighting which broke out before during and after the match. I could thus view the game in the reasonable knowledge that some thug was not going to take a dislike to my face and try to re-arrange it a little.
However, I know for a fact that there is not one area in the ground (except perhaps, the Main Stand which I cannot afford to use), where fighting has not broken out in previous matches.
As a completely new and original attraction you might organise a sweepstakes game to guess where the next fight will break out, perhaps calling it "Golden Fight". Another might go under the title of "Fight of the Month", with a bike chain as first prize and a broken beer glass as the consolation prize.
I am in no way blaming your club or the police force as you both did your best to prevent trouble during Saturday's visit of many Chelsea supporters placing them in our hallowed Trent End.
Who I do blame are the 100 or so "leather strap boys" with the 'From Russia with love' type stiletto 'Dock Martens' who came in just to cause a fight. The club's insistence that the trouble is caused by a few is a little outdated. It will not be long, I fear before lengthy stragecic plans are drawn up by rival fans to overcome the opposition.
Certainly however, the vast majority of spectators are there as supporters of their club and I really believe that you would get more support if you managed to stop hooligans getting into the ground.
PK james fine letter, which ironically appeared in the Forest Review for the Chelsea match, gave a bright and very well reasoned suggestion as to how to set about this. identity cards are a painful but unfortunately, no longer unrealistic method of preventing crowd trouble, but it must be acompanied with crowd segregation.
Sad or not, where a club has rough fans, fences should be put up to defend the good everyday supporter who simply wants to watch a game of football.
It is indeed very sad when mounted police begin to dress up like human 'Urko's' (a reference to the Planet of the Apes theme') but such measures must be taken as well as the identity card scheme.
I appeal most strongly to those fans who cause our great club so much trouble. You are not proving your virility by matching your knuckle duster against the gentleman in the blue corner with the knife. You impress no-one with your fighting and you will find no support whatsoever from the majority of peaceful spectators should you be on the ground and up against it.
You are an absolute disgrace to our club, and as long as you exist, we are not intertested in you.
Football is our national sport. Be proud of it and support it. Don't fight it.
I.L (Mapperley).
You do have to question where some get their ideas from! ... I think this chap is possibly 2 sandwiches short of a picnic.
The letters continued in to the club but apart from the away game at Chelsea, there were no more major incidents as promotion was achieved back to the First Division. There were ground improvements, around segregation matters etc and away fans would be allocated a part of the East Stand terrace, so never again would the 'Trent End' have to be given up when a huge following was expected as had happened in the Division 2 years v Man Utd, Chelsea in the league and Southampton in the FA Cup.
It would be many more years however before crowd violence was brought under proper control.
In the 78/79 season, the match day programme started to publish 'black lists' of fans banned from the CG for acts of violence ... but then in the pogramme on 16th December v Birmingham, a letter into the club warned ... 'There is also the danger that to some people inclusion in the 'black list' is a status symbol rather than a disgrace. Do Forest really want to be encouraging this group by providing them with public recognition'.
It should be said that many of the 'programme articles' in the 77/78 & 78/79 season related to our excellent success on the field ... but there will still plenty who found anything they could to moan about ... for example, CG attendances & how they should be better. I for one thought we had some excellent support around this time, especially as we were heading for some seriously poor economic times.
But to close this 'programme review' through the seventies, I will end with an article which appeared on the 8th September 1979 v Leeds. It described the bringing home of the European Cup where an estimated 200,000 people turned out to welcome the team & the Cup home, the date Thursday 31st May 1979.
It is quite a long article, initially setting the scene as crowds gathered in Nottingham's Old Market Square for the open top bus tour but I will just pick out a small section, which covered the European campaign ...
ML writes ...
'All the jubilation and cheering, and yet I couldn't join in because something had happened to my throat so I couldn't make a sound. And my eyes had gone blurry so I couldn't see properly. No, of course I wasn't crying - I never do. And anyway, I wasn't the only one...
bla bla bla
So many miles we travelled for it, and so many memories. Athens, where we expected aggro and instead found the most fantastic friendliness and hospitality, where the air was full of Greek music and there was that sudden magical glimpse of the Acropolis when we turned a corner. Zurich, crisp and clear, with it's cobbled streets, cow bells and Alpine horns (but no yodelling). Cologne, where we went into the soaring perfection of the Cathedral and found it full of Trent Enders, all behaving impeccably - walking on tip toe, talking in whispers, and puting money into the collection box held by the old red robed monk. Munich, that perfect day and that perfect stadium, and the finish so reminiscent of the Olympic games, with a seemingly endless line made up of Forest & Malmo supporters and Germans all joined in haphazard. And Anfield, where we had a brick through our window.
But I'll never forget, will you?'
And so ends, the 70's programme review!
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